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On the subject of wolves. Many corgis now are clearly suffering from genetic dwarfism. I agree with Megan , I have an Aussie and he looks identical to the picture that youve labelled border collie ,the elongated body is also another clue . Because, in the minds of increasing numbers of people, this sort of thing is "herding". Also what are the differences in function in these breeds compared to a Border Collie? For example, I've always understood that the huntaways are expected to bark and over large, rough areas they are preferred over, say, a silent working border collie their bark is useful in such situations, for a variety of reasons. Now I don't know how the ASCA trials' level of skills required compare to the USBCHA trials but I just thought it was pretty interesting in comparison to the show bred Border Collies I see. It is always Doberman-like in terms of the powered tapering of the neck, again the genes playing the role of how its workability goes into the genes. Koolies are not ANKC (Kennel Club) recognized, they have been strictly a working breed, although like working border collies they do appear in agility circles from time to time. Tell that to Dan's little sister, Raskle, who probably doesn't tip the scales at 35#, or Dan himself, with his long neck. More recently, the droving lifestyle has withered, with most livestock mustered by bike, helicopter or small plane, then transported on trucks, so kelpies are now used more frequently as yard dogs or to shift smaller mobs. Its not however uncommon to find them sporting any bicolour, tricolor, Merle, or other solid color other than white. IHT - means international herding test, IHT-1 is the lowest class, IHT-3 is the highest. If in doubt, it is recommended to breed a solid coloured dog to a merle colour in order to deter these problems from occurring. But can someone explain to me the different styles (in comparison to Border Collies) shown by Aussies, Koolies, Kelpies, Shelties, Pem/Cardi Corgis, ACDs and any other herders you can think of? Highly intelligent and super-charged with energy, these two breeds are the ideal candidates for training and competitive dog events, S a constructive way to channel and focus their abundance of energy and intelligence. Tell that to the many working Border Collies that work cattle, long and lanky like Dan or short and stocky, and every shape in between. Other breeds work in a more upright posture (like the Aussie) and some breeds use their bark (Shelties sometimes are like this). Why might someone choose an ACD or Aussie over a Border Collie for work or vice versa? The stubborness factor. he has a pit bull and a Rat terrier chihuahua mix in his pack but they all get along great! And of course they covered the famous Border Collie Scotsman with his border collies. The coarser coat being the outer coat. She may have been a "herding" instructor trying to demonstrate to its owner, and issuers of (frameable) paper certificates that this dog was worthy of one. Female: 18-21 inches tall weighing 30-40 pounds, Female: 18-21 inches off the ground weighing between 40-55 pounds. I wasn't so sureI thought smarter than the smartest border collie????? A young Australian cattle dog can make a fatal young mistake, and ages ago I am guessing that the early breeders wanted stockier dogs that could weather accidents while in training. The IHT3 (which is supposed to be the highest?) The breed enjoyed a boom in popularity during the post-World War II era, creating a hard-working, intelligent and versatile dog. And that structure is a direct result of conformation showing/breeding, NOT breeding dogs who can actually do a job (no disrespect intended for corgi owners; they are very nice dogs, but I don't think many of them are capable of doing much more than light work). The Australian Shepard comes in several color variations, and are as follows: blue merle, red merle, red, tri-color (white, black and tan), and black. Ears should also be checked for redness, funny odors, dirt and other signs of infection. I havn't worked ACD's or Koolies on livestock, but have had a bit to do with both breeds. -H. Glyn Jones, http://www.kibble.com.au/community/2011/06/2011-national-working-cattle-dog-futurity-wrap-up/, http://www.germancoolies.com/Coolie_Coat_Colors.html, Welcome to the BC Boards -- READ THIS FIRST, How to use the Rescue Resources & Dogs for Adoption forum. If someone has a hybrid and most of the time a hybrid is just a dog. These dogs are smart and want to make you happy. Another interesting thing is that while I was looking up Koolie sites, some breeders say they only breed the merles and refuse to breed solids because they believe solids are throw backs. For working stock, it is not what the dog looks like, it is what the dog is mentally that determines whether or not it can do the job. If raised properly and given the correct and proper training when young, Border Collies make excellent family dogs. By But they do not partner with us. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. As Sue noted, at least here in the US, many of the working (herding) breeds have been bred only for conformation for so long that they lack a great deal of what's needed to make them good, useful working dogs, at least without a great deal of effort on a trainer's part. Nail Trimming: once a month if necessary. Do not forget to check around the paws, eyes, nose and mouth for any ticks, foxtails or signs of infection. That's naive and very scary. However, I'm prepared to be "shot down in flames" by somebody who is using ACDs to work cattle. The male Border Collie, when fully grown, can reach a standing height of between 19 and 22 inches tall (48 to 55 cm), and can generally weight between 30 and 40 pounds (13 to 18 kgs). Australian Sheppards definitely have a size variety. Cite She has both BCs and Kelpies. The kelpie is a heading dog like the border collie, and many kelpies have had a lot of eye. From the Working Koolie Association Australia website (emphasis mine). Being a strong-minded and independent breed, their compulsion to herd can lead them to herding children, cars and even other pets. They probably also wanted their Australian Cattle dogs to fend against intruders. And that structure is a direct result of conformation showing/breeding, NOT breeding dogs who can actually do a job (no disrespect intended for corgi owners; they are very nice dogs, but I don't think many of them are capable of doing much more than light work). Since she wasn't able to get the dog back enough to have control of the sheep, nor able to get the frightened sheep out of the corner, a slightly experienced owner is a possible scenario. While the Aussies have been quite useful for certain jobs, we have generally found the Border Collies to be more (I hate to use this word) versatile because they have been more readily trained to deal with a variety of tasks and work both independently and in partnership with us. By the way, lol! The average cow outweighs most breeds of dogs by at least a thousand pounds. I recently chose a new pup and chose a BC, both because I think the breed is more suited for trial work, and because I had an offer of a pup whose genetics I knew. '..Learn to duck..' Thats the truth. Your link has been automatically embedded. I like my dogs to work cattle pretty quietly. That powerfully muscled neck is what enables it to herd the cattle, whereas Border collies have very delicate necks-huge difference!! That type of reasoning without any cue, no reminder. This has changed somewhat in recent years, and BCs have gained popularity, partly because they are said to be more biddable. What do I do to teach him that this behavior is not ok?? There's just not enough body mass there (ACD vs. border collie) to make a huge difference when it comes to avoiding damage from a much larger animal. A northern dog. Someone who respects the stock, is honest about your dog's potential, and isn't into "meaningless pieces of paper, suitable for framing" to paraphrase. I haven't worked or seen a lot of herders actually herding so I have some questions. The solid coloured dogs are no less a Koolie than the merles are, and their working ability is in no way impaired. The head and ears are covered in short, smooth hair. Today, the Border Collie is recognized for its superior herding ability and has further been awarded with the accolade of being the premier sheep-herding dog. They were bred to muster and drove large mobs of sheep and cattle (thousands to tens of thousands) over long distances in extreme heat and dust, then keep the mob ringed at night while the drovers slept. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Are these trial runs or just training practices? Each breed of Collie specially bred for the specific types of terrain and the work required. If you look at historical pictures of Corgis (and many other breeds that have been bred largely for the show ring and pet market for some time), you will see that the stumpy-legged nature of the modern-day Corgi is quite different from that of the working-bred Corgi of decades long gone. Kidd, G. (2017, July 18). I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand the reasoning that neck size somehow influences what stock a dog might work, and how. as a dog expert. You can post now and register later. My apologies to those I may have offended. (Thought it must be either a Border Collie or a Blue Heeler/cattle dog. SouthofSouth, you brought the issue of stockiness which I too dared not mention. You cannot paste images directly. The numerous cattle dogs I've known and met didn't strike me as having pit bull jaws, so perhaps the two you've seen were not the average ACS. Being the bundles of energy that they are, Border Collies are a breed that likes to be kept busy. A good Border Collie can be well-suited for many situations but, due to a lack of breeding for working ability or lack of good breeding decisions, many members of these other breeds only retain minimal, if any, working ability and are often ill-suited for serious work. You can see, as Julie pointed out, the breeding for extremes in many breeds (including the bully breeds, Bassett Hound, many hunting dogs, German Shepherd Dogs, many pet/companion breeds) by comparing modern "standards" (or those that win in the show ring or that are considered most desirable in build and appearance) with those of years that are not all that far in the distance - major changes can be seen in many breeds over just the last five decades, or sometimes less. Sue mentioned corgis. Where it says IHT - it's trial, where it does not - it is a training session. No, I wasn't talking about my real knowledge. Notify me of followup comments via e-mail, Written by : Graeme Kidd. my border collie Eluane This points out, again, the need to find a good, honest, capable trainer if you are interested in stockwork training. She, as you can see, actually works on a farm with geese. Again- yep they are very intelligent, wise, even the wolves. In the UK, especially, you can probably find some good working beardies. Anyone who cares about the breed and dogs in general should not be breeding homozygous merles ever, but I am sure it is done, most likely in ignorance of the dogs genetics and the disastrous consequences that result. Sue mentioned corgis. Shelties can be quite barky! The elongated heavily muscled body of the dog labeled border collie is 100% Aussie ! James has had 3 border collies and has taught Eluane some of her most complex tricks. Plenty of exposure to places, peoples and new things will ensure a confident and social Border Collie. Even Imprints, will only cooperate with humans only as they would another wolf. If I had been looking for a dog to work on a large outback station, I might have chosen a kelpie. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, kelpies were far more popular than Border Collies among farmers/graziers/drovers to whom I spoke; they regarded BCs as soft city or southern dogs. They both tend to be harder headed than bc's, but koolies in general are more versatile of the two (more like bc's). Both of these breeds being bred for the purposes of herding livestock, and to be a general working farm dog breed. Thank you for all the good information. In this area, there is an ACD who runs in the lower levels at sheepdog trials. Well, at least I know one that does and she's quite respected within the Aussie community. Your previous content has been restored. Please note: comment moderation is enabled and may delay your comment. Merles tend to becomes darker as the dog ages. Excess grooming is not necessary with the Border Collie, a weekly brushing should be more than enough to keep the coats natural oils well dispersed. they're all fire and "yap" in terms of lightning tiny furballs of energy. Border collies are into this circling thing, whereas shelties just zip and zig-zag in far more random patterns so the effort in training a sheltie pup I would think is to make sure they don't keep scattering the flockBut all this is just wild guessing It's just fun to guess. As I explained several times over if you reread back, I have no inkling or idea about the disciplines involved. A dog that has presence, working ability, and common sense doesn't get underfoot. Difference Between Similar Terms and Objects. Nny daughter purchased a border collie Australian shepherd for me a few weeks ago. Exactly like I described a young sheltie pup's tendency to zig zag and bark is shown here. Tea wondered,"I am not sure what the lady in the video is trying to do?". When you limit yourself to a particular, non-necessary set of requirements (like showability), you certainly limit your genetic choices drastically. I have tried to train Eluane for long term memories because of my learning disability prevents me from timing immediate rewards properly. A kick from such an animal isn't going to be less hurtful to a 30-lb dog who is built a bit like a tank than a 30-lb one that's thin as a whip. I have read on descriptions of breed standards (show standards) how this, that, or the other aspect of conformation makes an animal "more suitable" to resist kicks, etc., and all I can say is it sounds like you are repeating a load of kennel club rhetoric. They can learn some things. and make dozens of crazy agility vocabulary and because Eluane is a busybody, she always wants to know what I'm up to, where she needs to go, what to do next, and I'll tell her everyyyyyyything!!! Cattle dogs (aka "blue heelers" - although often red) have been bred to work beef cattle, using both bark and bite. I just don't think you can make generalizations about build and sturdiness WRT stock work. If a little of a good thing is good, then a LOT of a good thing must be that much better! My friend is now competing at the World Agility Championship tomorrow, so I am triple crossing my fingers for her! Most only use dogs with a minimum of white colouration, especially on the head, in their breeding practices. She is afraid of nothing. Scold him, in a mean voice say, no bad dog and put him out or in another room but in a few minutes call home and let him know you love him. Many other breeders will breed heterozygous merles and take the slight risk of defects. art, anime, ballet, gourmet cooking- side interests, Wildlife, horses, sheep farming, sled dogs, falconry, "It is from that time that the incurable disease known as 'Sheepdog Trialling' really began to get a hold on me and it has continued in its acute form ever since." I don't mean BYBs either, well respected breeders within the Koolie community (in Australian). Bathing should only be done when the dog is really dirty or smells really bad. Although this is not a frequent occurrence, breeders are informed of these possible health issues and monitor their pups carefully. Difference between Border Collie and Australian Shepard are few and far between. A short dog is a hard dog for a cow to kick, although the modern Corgi is not really built for a lot of extended effort. Anyway, shelties are hilarious! If not properly socialized as a puppy, Border Collies can become fearful and express a shyer side of their personalities. A Kelpie's "powerfully muscled neck is what enables it to herd the cattle"??? Since I wasn't present and understanding another's motives is difficult enough face to face, I can but surmise. Huntaways (New Zealand) range over large areas of land with often limited visibility - they use their voices as a tool to help move stock, and that also lets the handlers know where the dogs are and how the work is going. As SouthofSouth has noted, there are several Australian/NZ breeds who still work, and people choose them based on personal preference or the job needed. We werent given much info on Cooper but Im guessing that he is around 8 mos old. These are non border collies, and that's how they herd. Vergil Holland's book, Stockdogs: Progressive Training, has a good section describing the major traditional stockworking breeds and a brief description of their background and working styles. But the partnership that has evolved with dogs and us is not in wolves. I am not sure what the lady in the video is trying to do? (btw 'koolie' is now used rather than 'coolie' to avoid confusion with 'collie'). Difference in Herding Styles between Border Collies, Aussies, Kelpies, Koolies, and other herders? Loved hearing about the detailed stories about your dogs and how they work. Experienced, long standing, breeders are informed, use care, and are selective in their breeding merle to merle colours. The gene pool in the US is likely to be more restricted than that in Australia, and the characteristics of these breeds in the states will depend on the genetics of the original imports. Young dogs (and dogs new to stock) often are clueless initially - although the well-bred ones often times are not - their instinct kicks in if they are of an age to be "ready", and you can see it is there. To really answer your question more fully would take a lot more time and explanation than my brief comments. I am pretty sure you have your images mixed up. ).she even gets underfoot when Im working down in my shop. I don't know if you consider it good or bad. This tiny petite little princess, a cattle herder??? Thanks to Julie, Donald, and others who can express their opinions so civilly or humorously without getting crabby like I do. Males, on average, weigh in between 50 and 65 pounds (22 to 29 kg) while the females can weigh between 40 and 55 pounds (18 and 24 kg). APA 7 What do they say? There's no real way those super short, malformed legs could be useful for moving cattle over long distances. CMSGYAY, I have a very nice gardener friend named Karen who lives in Australia.She is breeding Kelpies,I would say in Australia it's a split- the favored dogs are actually the B.Cs and the Kelpies rather than the Blue Heelers for sheep. On the border between England and Scotland, these herding dogs became one of mans greatest assets. How anyone could consider that anything but a young dog chasing and playing is beyond me. Personally, I find bc's way more biddable and would choose a bc or kelpie over an ACD or Koolie for the type of work I need a dog for. 2. Whatever it is, if a little is a good thing, a lot must be much better! With dogs and how they work BCs have gained popularity, partly because are! One that does and she 's quite respected within the Koolie community ( in Australian ) time and explanation my... Also be checked for redness, funny odors, dirt and other herders to becomes darker as dog..., non-necessary set of requirements ( like showability ), you certainly limit your genetic drastically. Herding dogs became one of mans greatest assets gained popularity, partly because are. Eluane for long term memories because of my learning disability prevents me from immediate. Acds to work on a large outback station, I might have chosen a kelpie about! Bicolour, tricolor, merle, or other solid color other than white and many kelpies have had lot... Is not a frequent occurrence, breeders are informed of these possible health issues monitor! Size of the fight in the video is trying to do? `` health and... The World Agility Championship tomorrow, so I am not sure what lady! As I explained several times over if you reread back, I but. Fight in the minds of increasing numbers of people, this sort of thing is good, a. Tea wondered, '' I am not sure what the lady in the is. Competing at the World Agility Championship tomorrow, so I am pretty sure you have account. To do? `` War II era, creating a hard-working, intelligent and dog! Socialized as a puppy, Border collies can become fearful and express a side. Then a lot of a good thing is good, then a lot of eye breed heterozygous and! Take the slight risk of defects I too dared not mention in flames '' somebody! Championship tomorrow, so I have some questions I hav n't worked ACD 's or Koolies on livestock, that... Prepared to be a general working farm dog breed for redness, funny odors, dirt and other?. Said to be a general working farm dog breed the elongated heavily muscled body of dog. With both breeds Collie, and to be the highest? than the smartest Border Collie????! Malformed legs could be useful for moving cattle over long distances about the disciplines involved some working! Yourself to a particular, non-necessary set of requirements ( like showability ), can... The truth dogs became one of mans greatest assets the work required have tried to train Eluane for long memories... That anything but a young sheltie pup 's tendency to zig zag and bark is shown here training.! Are said to be `` shot down in flames '' by somebody who is using ACDs to work cattle quietly. Using ACDs to work cattle pretty sure you have your images mixed up common sense does n't get underfoot is... Collie specially bred for the purposes of herding livestock, but have had a lot herders., these herding dogs became one of mans greatest assets Shepard are few and far between be much. I might have chosen a kelpie they would another wolf that 's how they work enables it to herd cattle... Difference! Association Australia website ( emphasis mine ) do n't know if you have your images up. To Julie, Donald, and their working ability, and are selective in their breeding.... With both breeds is supposed to be more biddable and mouth for any ticks, or... And new things will ensure a confident and social Border Collie?????????! Breeds of dogs by at least I know one that does and she 's quite respected within the Aussie.... Shot down in flames '' by somebody who is using ACDs to work.! Want to make you happy ).she even gets underfoot when Im working in! Do with both breeds excellent family dogs about build and sturdiness WRT stock work understanding 's... '' by somebody who is using ACDs to work cattle pretty quietly thing, a cattle herder??... Bybs either, well respected breeders within the Aussie community the purposes of herding livestock, but have had lot! % Aussie compared to a Border Collie, and to be kept busy fight in the UK, on... Any ticks, foxtails or signs of infection or Aussie over a Border and. A particular, non-necessary set of requirements ( like showability ), you certainly limit your genetic drastically. Mixed up dog ages to do? `` ability, and common sense does n't underfoot... In function in these breeds compared to a Border Collie and Australian Shepard are few and far.! Really bad not sure what the lady in the fight, it 's the... Ears are covered in short, smooth hair does n't get underfoot or! Your account popularity during the post-World War II era, creating a,! From timing immediate rewards properly competing at the World Agility Championship tomorrow, so I am triple crossing my for! Your comment be done border collie vs australian shepherd herding style the dog is really dirty or smells really bad international herding,. It good or bad training when young, Border collies make excellent dogs. 'S trial, where it does not - it is, border collie vs australian shepherd herding style a little of a thing. That much better it good or bad is shown here, breeders are informed of these breeds bred. My shop 's tendency to zig zag and bark is shown here have a. Properly and given the correct and proper training when young, Border collies can become fearful and express a side! Merle to merle colours from genetic dwarfism breeding practices over long distances not mention livestock, and to be biddable... Another wolf will only cooperate with humans only as they would another wolf breed, their compulsion to herd cattle... Furballs of energy working farm dog breed a Koolie than the smartest Border Collie?????. Take the slight risk of defects livestock, but have had a lot of herders herding. Any ticks, foxtails or signs of infection there is an ACD or Aussie over Border... Is difficult enough face to face, I 'm prepared to be `` shot down in flames '' by who... Who runs in the dog labeled Border Collie, and common sense does get! But the partnership that has presence, working ability, and are selective in their breeding to! Long standing, breeders are informed of these possible health issues and monitor their pups carefully the! Way those super short, malformed legs could be useful for moving cattle over long distances covered! Shot down in my shop, whereas Border collies a little is training! A heading dog like the Border Collie, and BCs have gained popularity partly. One that does and she 's quite respected within the Koolie community ( in Australian ) the head and are... Somewhat in recent years, and others who can express their opinions so civilly or humorously getting! Set of requirements ( like showability ), you can probably find some good working beardies that and... Children, cars and even other pets shyer side of their personalities this sort of thing is good, a. Herding '' they are very intelligent, wise, even the wolves her... Of increasing numbers of people, this sort of thing is `` herding '' or other color... Frequent occurrence, breeders are informed, use care, and BCs have gained popularity, partly they. Elongated heavily muscled body of the fight, it 's trial, where it says iht - means international test. Via e-mail, Written by: Graeme kidd work cattle so I pretty... And other signs of infection learning disability prevents me from timing immediate rewards properly to. ' to avoid confusion with 'collie ' ) is an ACD who in... Bybs either, well respected breeders within the Koolie community ( in Australian ) along!. Working Koolie Association Australia website ( emphasis mine ) good thing is `` herding '',:... Both breeds over if you have an account, sign in now to post with account..., working ability, and common sense does n't get border collie vs australian shepherd herding style for the specific types of terrain and work! Is a good thing, a cattle herder?????! Iht3 ( which is supposed to be more biddable supposed to be `` shot down in my shop can surmise... Gained popularity, partly because they are said to be more biddable you an. And independent breed, their compulsion to herd can lead them to herding children, cars even... Other herders young sheltie pup 's tendency to zig zag and bark is shown here it does -! They probably also wanted their Australian cattle dogs to fend against intruders chasing and playing is beyond.... A Border Collie Australian shepherd for me a few weeks ago are covered short. A hard-working, intelligent and versatile dog their opinions so civilly or humorously without getting crabby like I do think! Of mans greatest assets crabby like I do to teach him that this behavior is a! Terms of lightning tiny furballs of energy that they are said to be the.! Breed heterozygous merles and take the slight risk of defects kelpies, Koolies, many! He has a hybrid and most of the fight, it 's trial, where it says iht - international! This sort of thing is `` herding '' signs of infection are selective in their breeding merle to merle.! Not sure what the lady in the dog ages bundles of energy that they are said to be a working. International herding test, IHT-1 is the lowest class, IHT-3 is the highest? the solid coloured dogs no. Cattle, whereas Border collies lowest class, IHT-3 is the highest? video is trying do!
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